Author: blass uri
Date: 02:42:34 05/07/00
Go up one level in this thread
On May 07, 2000 at 01:30:22, Mogens Larsen wrote: >On May 06, 2000 at 18:46:08, blass uri wrote: > >>It was not an attempt to discredit Jouni test. >> >>Chessfun was surprised to see jouni results and wanted to see if she can repeat >>the results. >> >>She found that she could not repeat the results(there was only one case when >>Fritz lost 11:9 and she found that fritz was slowed down in this case). > >She tried _once_ to reproduce the result, that isn't enough. Maybe or maybe not >Fritz was slowed down, but what about Crafty? She found also that Crafty was slowed down in the games that fritz was leading 9-0. > >>It was not something against Jouni and she did not say that >>Jouni cheated. > >Initially it was an attempt to discredit Jounis test. Of course she couldn't >repeat the Jouni test results. That could have been established before playing a >single game. I didn't say anything about whether Chessfun has something against >Jouni personally or a suspicion of cheating. I do not think that she wanted to prove that Fritz is better than crafty. She did not know before her games that fritz will win. > >>The uncertainty introduced by the autoplayer is also in the ssdf games. > >Yes, but at least they're consistant. They don't compare autoplayer games with >non-autoplayer games. In small part of their games(all the games of chessmaster no autoplayer is involved because chessmaster does not support the autoplayer) The question is if it is possible to compare result of the ssdf games with result of people with one computer who do engine-engine games. In the case of the nunn match the between Crafty17.10 and Fritz6a the results are similiar. > >>Computer usage during the test was alos in some ssdf games. >>I found that Junior was slowed down in some ssdf games >>and the tester admitted that the reason was that he used another program >>in the same time and had to repeat 4 games. >> >>I checked minority of the games so I believe that a similiar problem exists also >>in games that I did not check. > >The margin of error is much smaller when we're talking about standard games. If >you interfere with cpu or ram at game/1 then it's something completely >different. There is no proof for diminishing return from speed and I do not know if being 2 times slower in 1 minutes/game is more significant than being 2 times slower in 2 hour/40 moves games. > >>I think that there is no proof for a significant difference in the results and >>Fritz6a is about 200 elo better than Crafty17.10 in the nunn match games in all >>time controls and pondering on or off does not change much. > >Some emphirical data would be nice to confirm a question like this, alas there >isn't any yet. > >>I do not say that both sides earn the same from time or earn the same from >>pondering but the difference is too small to know by some hundreds of games and >>I guess that we need about 10000 games to know. >> >>I think that the situation is different in tournament time control when Fritz is >>only about 100 elo better. > >That may be true, but Chessfuns test doesn't tell us anything about it. If you >think carefully I'm sure you'll realise that it could have been much better. chessfun test does not tell us significant results but the reason is that there are not enough games. There may be errors because of the fact that one computer is slowed down part of the time but it is possible to check the games to see if there is a problem and correct the cases when there is a problem. > >>I admit that I checked only small portion of all the possible errors but I guess >>that I am not the only one who checked games. > >I haven't heard anyone else. > >>I also guess that people are more responsible when they know that the games are >>public and I trust them more to check for errors relative to the case when the >>games are not public. > >That is probably true, but I fail to see the relevance. The relevance is that it is a reason to trust more chessfun's results because she does not hide part of her games like the ssdf. Uri
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