Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 19:41:31 10/15/00
Go up one level in this thread
On October 15, 2000 at 21:35:33, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On October 14, 2000 at 16:15:17, Thorsten Czub wrote:
>
>>[Event "Open Dutch CC 2000"]
>>[Site "Leiden NED"]
>>[Date "2000.10.14"]
>>[Round "02"]
>>[White "Tiger"]
>>[Black "Nimzo 8"]
>>[Result "1-0"]
>>[ECO "D20"]
>>
>>1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.e4 Nf6 4.e5 Nd5 5.Bxc4 Nb6 6.Bb3 Nc6 7.Ne2 Bf5
>>8.Nbc3 e6 9.a3 Qd7 10.O-O Be7 11.Be3 O-O-O 12.Rc1 f6 13.exf6 gxf6
>>14.Na4 Nd5 15.Bc4 Na5 16.Ba2 Bg4 17.Nac3 Nxc3 18.Rxc3 Kb8 19.f3 Bh5
>>20.b4 Nc6 21.b5 Na5 22.Qa4 b6 23.Nf4 Bf7 24.Rfc1 Bd6 25.Nd3 Rhg8
>>26.Nc5 Bxc5 27.dxc5 e5 28.Bxf7 Qxf7 29.cxb6 cxb6 30.Qc2 Qg6 31.Qa2 f5
>>32.Kh1 f4 33.Bg1 h5 34.Qe2 Qf6 35.a4 h4 36.h3 Qg5 37.R1c2 Rd7
>>38.Qe1 Rdg7 39.Qe4 Rd7 40.Qe2 Rgd8 41.Qe1 Qe7 42.Qe4 Qg5
>>
>>Here the thing begins !
>>Rc6 is an easy move for Gambit-Tiger. It KNOWS that these kind
>>of moves are playable. and it gives the rook to make the bishop
>>on g1 active.
>>no search-based chess program can see this IMO.
>>this is the paradigm-shift.
>>
>>gambit-tiger believes that this move could make it.
>>it is not KNOWING it. it trusts the evaluations and the
>>knowledge it has.
>>
>>thats chris whittingtons way. here you see christophe
>>walking in the foot-steps of chris...
>>
>>leaving the hyatt-paradigm.
>
>
>I have to disagree. It is not hard to tune my (or any other) program to
>play this move. If you watch gambit tiger play, it has some _outrageous_
>scores. In a game on ICC the other night, Crafty was at -.2, gambit tiger
>was at +3.2... would you care to guess _which_ was right?
Would you care to guess what is the current score of Gambit Tiger against Crafty
(including Crafties with an outrageous hardware advantage)?
It's easy to laugh about a lost attack, but in this case it seems I'm going to
laugh more often than you will.
If it's not hard to "tune" your program to play moves like 43.Rc6 in
Nimzo8-Gambit, then why don't you do it right now?
Do it, Bob. Do it right now. And let your overtuned version meet Gambit Tiger.
> I will be more
>impressed when I see lots of such moves where _most_ are right...
I will be impressed when I see Crafty playing just ONE move of thing kind.
> IE CSTal
>finds great looking moves that often backfire. Too often.
>
>Speculation is one thing. Accuracy is another. There _is_ a middle
>ground...
>
>
>
>
>>
>>is there any chess program playing Rc6 ?
>>
>>brilliant. i hope more will follow.
>>because this steps into a new quality in computerchess.
>>the moment when chess programs BELIEVE !!!! instead of knowing.
>>or seeing in the tree.
>
>
>This is so inherently dangerous it is obvious. Just because you _believe_
>you can walk on water doesn't make it so. You had better _know_... If you
>are only 10 feet from shore, you might not drown. In the middle of the Pacific,
>you had better be _certain_ you can walk...
Now I understand better what Chris Whittington calls "the Hyatt paradigm". :)
I'm sorry, I never thought I would one day share CW's point of view, but you are
pushing me in that direction...
Gambit Tiger was not certain that 43.Rc6 was winning. Actually it might even
turn out that this move is incorrect. I don't know.
And you know what? I DON'T CARE.
The only thing that matters is that the opponent has been UNABLE to show it was
incorrect.
That's where computer chess finally meets human chess.
If your program can't swim, then I guess it's better for it to stay close to the
shore.
Mine is learning how to swim. There are sexy girls on the islands, I guess he
wants to go there. ;)
Christophe
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