Author: chandler yergin
Date: 17:19:31 11/08/04
Go up one level in this thread
On November 08, 2004 at 19:25:20, Uri Blass wrote: >On November 08, 2004 at 18:57:01, chandler yergin wrote: > >>On November 08, 2004 at 17:43:18, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On November 08, 2004 at 16:25:48, chandler yergin wrote: >>> >>>>On November 08, 2004 at 12:05:19, Uri Blass wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 08, 2004 at 11:31:59, chandler yergin wrote: >>>>>>Oh, it finds it v-e-r-y- Quickly! >>>>>> >>>>>>Just doesn't think too highly of it! >>>>>> >>>>>>Looks like your 'immortal' game, is very Mortal. >>>>>> >>>>>>Ed - Rebel 12 >>>>>>rnbq1rk1/pp1n1p1p/4p1p1/3pP1N1/1b1p1P1P/2NB4/PPP3P1/R1BQK2R w KQ - 0 1 >>>>>> >>>>>>Analysis by Shredder 8: >>>>>> >>>>>>11.h5 dxc3 12.b3 Qc7 13.hxg6 fxg6 14.Rxh7 Qb6 15.Ke2 Rd8 16.Bxg6 Kf8 17.Rh8+ Kg7 >>>>>>18.Rxd8 Qf2+ 19.Kxf2 Kxg6 20.Rxc8 Nxe5 21.fxe5 >>>>>> ³ (-0.45) Depth: 12/12 00:00:00 >>>>> >>>>>>11.h5 dxc3 12.b3 Qc7 13.hxg6 fxg6 14.Rxh7 Qb6 15.Ke2 Rd8 16.Bxg6 Kf8 17.Rh8+ Kg7 >>>>>>18.Rxd8 Qf2+ 19.Kxf2 Kxg6 20.Rxc8 Nxe5 21.fxe5 >>>>>> ³ (-0.45) Depth: 16/16 00:00:01 271kN >>>>>> >>>>>>(Yergin, MyTown 08.11.2004) >>>>> >>>>>It is obvious that it learned from previous abalysis. >>>>>No change in the score or in the main line from depth 12 to depth 16. >>>> >>>>Check the TIME! >>>>00.01 seconds >>> >>>The time is not important >> >>Why? >>>It is obvious that Shredder8 cannot get depth 16 in 1 seconds in this position >>>without learning. >> >>Learning from what? > >Learning from previous analysis of the game. > >If I know combination I can also find the first move in 0 seconds and you gave >shredder8 to analyze the game before giving it the relevant position so it >remembered a score for h5 at small depths and did not need to analyze h5 and >only analyzed other moves to find that they are not better. I was using Multiple Lines.. to see what & how other moves were evaluated. Without analysis Fritz 5.32 & Crafty also found 11. h5 with no problem. You were expecting this? Ed - Rebel 12 [D]rnbq1rk1/pp1n1p1p/4p1p1/3pP1N1/1b1p1P1P/2NB4/PPP3P1/R1BQK2R w KQ - 0 1 Analysis by Shredder 8: 11.Qh5 gxh5 12.Nxh7 -+ (-9.90) Depth: 1/4 00:00:00 11.Qh5 gxh5 12.Bxh7+ Kg7 -+ (-10.55) Depth: 1/4 00:00:00 11.Qh5 gxh5 12.Bxh7+ Kh8 -+ (-10.38) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 11.0-0 dxc3 -+ (-5.13) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 11.0-0 dxc3 -+ (-4.06) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 11.0-0 dxc3 -+ (-4.04) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 11.Bxg6 Bxc3+ 12.bxc3 hxg6 -+ (-4.00) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 11.Bxg6 fxg6 12.Qxd4 -+ (-3.54) Depth: 1/5 00:00:00 11.Bxg6 fxg6 12.Nxe6 Bxc3+ 13.bxc3 -+ (-3.46) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 1/7 00:00:00 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 2/2 00:00:00 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 3/3 00:00:00 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 4/4 00:00:00 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 5/8 00:00:00 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 7/10 00:00:00 6kN 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 8/8 00:00:00 15kN 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 9/12 00:00:00 16kN 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 10/21 00:00:00 31kN 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 11/24 00:00:00 64kN 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 12/24 00:00:00 170kN 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 13/20 00:00:01 337kN 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 14/26 00:00:02 690kN 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 15/32 00:00:05 1349kN 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 16/30 00:00:08 2049kN 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 17/42 00:00:18 5155kN 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 18/40 00:00:28 8195kN 11.h5 dxc3 ³ (-0.27) Depth: 19/37 00:00:46 13986kN 11.h5 dxc3 12.hxg6 hxg6 13.a3 cxb2+ 14.axb4 bxa1Q 15.Rh8+ Kxh8 16.Bd2 Qxd1+ 17.Kxd1 Nxe5 18.fxe5 Kg7 19.Bxg6 ³ (-0.52) Depth: 20/52 00:02:37 51108kN (Yergin, MyTown 08.11.2004) > >> >> >>> >>>I do not have Shredder8 but here is some analysis by Shredder7.04 on A1000 and >>>it does not get h5. >>> >>>after learning I suspect that yace can also see it very fast so it proves >>>nothing >>> >>>Shredder8 may be able to search deeper but not that deeper. >> >> >>Check the Analysis and times... > >This is exactly the point. >The analysis and the time does not make sense for a program that did not learn >from analysis of the game. Of course it does.. It doesn't just check Main Line.. it evaluates many, you just have the PV showing. Set it to show 4 or 5 or more Variations, it gives the time and eval for each.. > >Main line and score is something that is usuaully changed frequently in the >first minutes and if you see the same score for some minutes then you should >understand that the program already remember them from previous analysis. > >Uri
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