Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: comp vs comp or comp vs human ... but why not comp vs cc players?

Author: Robert Ericsson

Date: 08:33:08 04/23/99

Go up one level in this thread


On April 23, 1999 at 10:15:07, Harald Faber wrote:

>On April 23, 1999 at 09:51:17, Robert Ericsson wrote:
>
>>I've just read an article on Rebel's home page about SSDF, comp-comp and
>>comp-human results.
>>
>>There seem to be two statements made out of this article:
>>1) comp-comp tournaments (for instance SSDF games) can be tweaked with
>>   different/special opening books. At least that's what the comp-human
>>   people argues. >>  SSDF's list is not 'showing the truth'
>>
>>2) comp-human tournaments are better as they will give a true FIDE-ELO
>>   where the programs have performed (good or bad) against humans in OTB
>>   (over the board) tournaments.  >>  More 'accurate' ELO list
>>
>>But hey, wait a minute!? Why is statement 2 so much better then 1?
>
>Easy: Because comp-comp in most cases is playing without a (reasonable) plan.

Yes, but performance rating of the comp. is very much biased by the fact
that OTB players blunder or overlook tactical sequences a lot (or even loose
on time).

>
>>In comp-human tournaments the computer will always benefit from the fact
>>that humans always make minor tactical misjudgements/blunders during a
>>game and the computer will not.
>
>That is correct, on the other hand humans do have a better positional
>understanding, especially when there is no tactics around.

Certainly true but tactics are always lurking around ;-)

>Programs have become strong opponents especially OTB. But my experience is that
>for analysis you can't leave them analyzing on their own. It still needs some
>brain for the right ideas.

And that's certainly true! That's why I use 'watch' command in Fritz and
not cc analysis feature when looking through my own played games :-D

>
>>Why not a computer vs cc player (correspondence chess player) tournament?
>>
>>The humans can check for blunders with a computer themselves, leaving
>>us with a game where the computer's skill of planning will be tested
>>against the cc player's skill of planning.
>
>Allow the cc player to check his ideas with a program and he will crush the
>opponent program.

I'm not so sure. Maybe if the cc player have an ICCF-ELO >2500 but not
otherwise.

Hmm... clarification: if comp uses 40 moves in 2 hours and cc player can
think much longer it's true. With equal time I don't think so.

>
>>Maybe 'advanced chess' tournaments with time control more then 40 moves in
>>2 hours can be worth considering? Maybe 40 moves in 4 hours?
>
>This is not enough time for cc player to look up all his material...

This was more a suggestion to an improved OTB Tournament. Seems that I ended
up talking about two possibilities :-)



This page took 0.01 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.