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Subject: Re: New crap statement ? Perpetuum mobile

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 11:54:03 09/29/01

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On September 29, 2001 at 10:41:37, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote:

>On September 29, 2001 at 10:01:11, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 28, 2001 at 00:00:43, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote:
>>
>>>On September 27, 2001 at 18:06:34, Olaf Jenkner wrote:
>>>
>>>>>If you can consistently produce a speedup of 3.0, then I can time-
>>>>>slice that same algorithm on one cpu and get a speedup of 1.5.  And I can do it
>>>>>for _any_ alpha/beta algorithm you do in parallel.  Every time. And using your
>>>>>code, it will be easy for me to do it.
>>>>>
>>>>It's a good explanation. Some people seem to believe to perpetuum mobiles.
>>>
>>>Some believe that objects heavier than air will never fly.
>>>Everybody knows, that's against physics.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Miguel
>>
>>
>>I think you worded that wrong.  Airplanes are heavier than air and have been
>>flying for 100 years now.  I think you meant the bumble-bee, because no one
>>believed they could move their wings rapidly enough to produce the lift required
>>to get them off the ground.
>
>I worded right, I was sarcastic to answer a sarcastic message.
>
>>There is a difference between "believed to be impossible" and "known to be
>>impossible."
>
>Exactly my point.
>
>>super-linear speedups are provably impossible.  I've already given the simple
>>proof.
>
>Then, I missed it. If you refer to doing two threads "slicing the time" this
>requires an overhead, and that means that using two processors are > 2.0 or
><2.0, who knows. (it could be 2.0001, or more, we do not know how future cpus
>will behave). Still, that was not the interesting part of the discussion. The
>interesting part was if an algorithm with two threads could be better than one.
>

It requires no overhead to mention.  Every N milliseconds the processor handle
a timer interrupt.  I choose that point to switch to the other thread.  The
cost is minimal.

You overlook the fact that the parallel search _also_ has its own kind of
overhead problems...  that would be eliminated in the approach needed for
a serial version (ie no atomic locks that are very slow...  etc.)


>Super-linear speedups are "probably" impossible but so far I did not see that
>they are "provably" impossible. I would settle with "They are believed to be
>impossible".
>
>Regards,
>Miguel


They simply _are_ impossible.  Unless you believe in perpetual
motion, infinite compression, a fire that will burn forever, etc.



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