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Subject: Re: OT: P4- 3 GHz with hyper-threading

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 08:56:56 11/01/02

Go up one level in this thread


On November 01, 2002 at 10:41:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On October 31, 2002 at 10:53:07, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On October 30, 2002 at 06:59:21, Terje Vagle wrote:
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>The new cpu from intel will have a new function called
>>>hyper-threading.
>>>
>>>This will make the operating system able to recognize the cpu as if it was
>>>2 cpu's.
>>>
>>>Could the programs with smp-support make use of this?
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>Terje Vagle
>>
>>No chessprograms cannot make use of that feature at all. It is sad but
>>the truth. Hyperthreading is a cool thing for the future but the P4
>>processor is a too small processor to allow hyperthreading from getting
>>to work.
>>
>>Apart from that a major problem is that even if we have a great processor
>>which really allows hyperthreading to be effective, that the threads
>>run at unequal speeds.
>>
>>Hyper threading is supposed to work for 2 threads where 1 is a fast
>>thread and the other is some kind of background thread eating little cpu
>>time.
>>
>>In chessprograms having a second search thread which just runs now and
>>then in the background is simply impossible to use.
>
>
>It is not impossible at all.  The only problem was spinlocks and Eugene
>posted a link to an Intel document that describes how to solve this problem.
>
>Given that solution, hyper-threading will work just fine since spinlocks
>won't confuse the processor...
>
>It won't be 2x faster, but it will certainly be faster if you can run a second
>thread while the first is blocked on a memory access...

No it won't be 2 times faster. suppose you start crafty with 2 threads.

thread A starts search and has 1.e4,e5
thread B starts and continues with 1.d4

now when A is ready, B will still be busy with its own search space,
and delay thread A time and again.

that'll slow down incredible.

You'll be a lot slower than searching with a single thread!

Also note that there is just 8 KB data cache and just like
40 registers to rename variables. then another 12KB tracecache.

*both* threads are eating from that 8 KB and 12KB tracecache,
that is an additional problem they 'overlook'.

As you can see from graphs. Usually SMT brings zero speedup.

Try crafty on a 2.4Ghz single cpu P4 or P4-Xeon please (northwood) or
above. Not on a slower P4 or P4-Xeon. Of course we go for the latest
hardware...

Just try it like i tried at Jan Louwman's 2.4Ghz P4s and 2.53Ghz P4s.

I can't measure *any* speedup *anyhow*.

Also theoreticlaly i see major problems for the P4 chip even if you
have software which could theoretically profit.





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