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Subject: Re: Deep Blue and the

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 00:41:13 11/11/98

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>>I don't know if what you are saying is that what Shay states is merely not
>>substantiated, or actually untrue. I guess the former. It's conventional wisdom
>>that the Deep Blue match is one of the greatest PR coups of all time, and I
>>think this has substance behind it. Both Shay and I can concede your points
>>without essentially changing our argument. I don't think you want us to argue
>>the reverse, say like: IBM's have not been able to show anything but loss
>>through their Kasaprov efforts, and therefore they are sure to play other
>>matches soon just to try to recoup expenses, and besides this is a lesson to you
>>all not to try to repeat IBM's costly mistake in launching the Deep Blue
>>project.

>>Fair enough ?

>Yes, I'd just heard that argument about the short-term stock market effect
>enough, and felt like stomping on it.  I think that it helped them, but you have
>to admit that claiming that the value of the company increased by 20% due to
>this is a stretch.

>[snip]
>>You are on weaker ground here. Obviously after Hong-Kong DB were looking to play
>>only Kasparov and no one else, unless you think this is just a weird
>>coincidence. They played several opponents including computers in the three
>>years preceding Hong-Kong, but in the three years after somehow things didn't
>>work out ? How come Socrates/Cilkchess and Zugzwang did not suffer the same fate
>>? They could come to the Harvard Cup 95, Aegon 96 & 97, Dutch championship,
>>Paderborn, whatever.

>The reference was to games with other computers.   The Harvard Cup and Aegon
>don't involve humans, and I thought there was some need to be Dutch in order to
>play in the Dutch championship, although I remember someone corrected me about
>one of these events in the last year or so, and it may have been this one.  They
>could have gone to Paderborn but I think that failure to go to this one event is
>hardly hiding.  Not going to Paderborn or some national championship shouldn't
>be described as "carefully avoided more 'embarassments'" against other
>computers.

>> Or they could play humans, like join a tournament, invite
>>someone like Judith Polgar to drop over for a game or two, or just publish one
>>or two of those Benjamin games, or just play against Rebel & Genius in their
>>basement and not lose the game scores. Or come to Paderborn 1999 (they won't),
>>or give Kasparov a rematch. By an unlucky coincidence through no fault of theirs
>>none of this happened. Come on.

>This is drifting away from the notion of hiding from other programs.  The point
>Shay was trying to make, as I read it, is that they got spanked by Fritz and
>avoided other programs as a result, and it appeared to me that he made this

>point in an effort to undermine the notion that DB is actually strong.

>Regarding not playing anybody in public except Garry, yes, that is a shame.  I'd
>like to see them be more open.

>I don't think they'll play again, for reasons we could probably agree about.
>I'd be delighted to be proven wrong.

>bruce

IMO you simply give a guy like Garry Kasparov a re-match out of respect. He
asked for it so you give it to him. Shame on IBM! Note that's some different
than shame on Deep Blue. They did a fantastic job.

- Ed -



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