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Subject: Re: The need to unmake move

Author: Jeremiah Penery

Date: 16:12:52 08/28/03

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On August 28, 2003 at 11:39:51, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On August 28, 2003 at 01:00:22, Jeremiah Penery wrote:
>
>>On a 2-way Opteron, accessing non-local memory should be at least as fast as
>>accessing memory on a single-cpu P4 or Athlon system.  For a 4-way Opteron, it
>>still should not be worse, even if it requires 2 hops.
>
>Perhaps.  But don't forget, when you have two cpus, 1/2 the memory _is_ slower
>than the other half.  By some fixed latency.  A poor algorithm will definitely
>perform slower than a good one, because the good one won't fight that extra
>latency while the poor one will hit it all the time.

But it's not more latency than you get *best case* when using a traditional SMP
setup.  So you can only gain, even with a "poor algorithm".

>>Cache coherency is just as much a problem on SMP machines as on NUMA ones.
>
>no it isn't.  For the reasons NUMA memory access is more problematic than
>pure SMP access.  The cache controllers have the _same_ latency issue.  A
>cache controller "way over there" takes much longer to "snoop/invalidate"
>than one "right next door."
>
>So you run into the _same_ issue again.   The "farther apart" two processors
>are, the less stuff you want to share in memory, because the cache coherency
>problem is slower to handle...

I don't know that I understand what you're saying, but I also don't think you
understand the Opteron NUMA setup very well.  In a 2(4) CPU Opteron setup, every
CPU (and memory bank) is *closer* to (or not farther from, in the worst case)
each other CPU (or memory) than in a traditional SMP setup with a northbridge.
Opterons are connected *directly*, rather than through a traditional bus.
Latency between processors is not always uniform, but it is still faster than
the traditional setup.  I don't see why uniformity is an issue, because even
memory accesses in a single-CPU setup are far from uniform in latency.  The
point is that the latency is lower than normal, regardless of the fact that it
is non-uniform.



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