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Subject: Re: Poll Question - Tournaments vs Matches

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 10:40:02 01/05/00

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On January 05, 2000 at 13:25:12, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On January 05, 2000 at 10:53:50, Bertil Eklund wrote:
>
>>On January 05, 2000 at 09:45:04, Chris Carson wrote:
>>
>>>For ELO measurements (FIDE, PCA, SSDF or combined).  Would a computer
>>>(or perhaps a person) get a higher rating in a tournament than in
>>>a match?
>>>
>>>My opinion is that a tournament is a better predictor of strength
>>>than a match.  My reason (not based on any facts, it would be an
>>>interesting study) is that in a tournament a person (or machine) would
>>>face a broader range of styles than in a match.  In a match, the person
>>>or computer might face an opponent that just plain does well against
>>>him/her/it (Even Fisher had a nimises).  Also, in match play, each
>>>player can book up on the opponent and may get an advantage that might
>>>not be there in a tournament (more players to worry about).
>>>
>>>So, I think a tournament is a better measure of strength than a match.
>>>
>>>Second question:  Would computer ratings benifit more from tournament
>>>play than match play?  I vote that tournament play would produce higher
>>>(more accurate) ratings for computers against people than match play.
>>>
>>>Just my two cents.  :)
>>>
>>>Best Regards,
>>>Chris Carson
>>Hi!
>>
>>You are right humans plays a lot better in single game matches and that is the
>>main reason between the discrepance between the SSDF-list and these matches
>>often with increment or double-increment time-controls.
>>
>>Regards Bertil SSDF
>
>
>Here I still disagree.  The SSDF list is simply grossly inflated.  Programs are
>not playing at a 2700 level, if by 2700 the word "FIDE" comes to mind.  The lack
>of human competition over the last 7-8 years has caused this, as
>machine-vs-machine ratings tend to get exaggerated.  I can't count the number of
>times I have made small changes to crafty that would cause version N+1 to beat
>version N by a 60-40 margin, yet the rating remained _exactly_ the same on ICC.
>
>Most versions will beat the earlier versions by significant margins, yet the
>overall skill level gain (against humans) is lower than what is suggested by
>taking the win/lose/draw score and running it thru the Elo formula.
>
>As I have said before, the pools are totally different.  The ratings are not
>comparable in any fashion until the two pools of players are merged and mingled
>enough that they can be treated equally.

I say amen to that. How can anybody believe nowadays chess programs can
compete with players like:

6 2209390 Shirov, Alexei  2722 ESP g  13
7 2000024 Kamsky, Gata  2720 USA g  0
8 2805677 Gelfand, Boris  2713 ISR g  24
9 4100026 Karpov, Anatoly  2709 RUS g  9
10 400041 Adams, Michael  2705 ENG g  48
11 14100010 Ivanchuk, Vassily  2702 UKR g  27
12 703303 Leko, Peter  2699 HUN g  14
13 2900084 Topalov, Veselin  2695 BUL g  36

on 40/2?

Maybe they can on 30/all but 40/2?

Ed



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