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Subject: Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action

Author: Omid David

Date: 01:47:16 07/13/02

On July 13, 2002 at 02:39:38, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On July 13, 2002 at 02:22:00, Omid David wrote:
>
>>On July 13, 2002 at 02:07:17, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>I still do not understand which positions you talk about which R=2
>>>is finding and R=3 isn't.
>>
>>I read your other post, that's also my point: Although at fixed depth, R=2 is
>>much better than R=3 (see also "adaptive null-move pruning" Heinz 1999), in
>>practice R=3 performs about the same as R=2 since on many occasions it finds the
>>correct move one ply later with lower search cost.
>
>By the way, if you have not found Vincent's post on double null move you should
>look it up.  It is a clear win for sure.

Yes it's a nice idea. But the main null-move pruning deficiency is its tactical
weakness due to horizon effect. Zugzwangs are not a major problem, and as
Vincent points out, he invented the double null-move idea just to show that
null-move pruning is OK. Now nobody doubts effectiveness of null-move pruning at
all, the only discussion nowadays is the depth reduction value.

Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Vincent Diepeveen 07:33:19 07/13/02
- Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Omid David 08:09:19 07/13/02
  - Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Vincent Diepeveen 08:52:36 07/13/02
    - Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Omid David 18:26:30 07/13/02
      - Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Christophe Theron 23:44:17 07/13/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Vincent Diepeveen 02:28:29 07/14/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Omid David 05:37:34 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Vincent Diepeveen 07:10:52 07/16/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Omid David 08:26:56 07/16/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Christophe Theron 10:11:09 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Vincent Diepeveen 08:01:23 07/16/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Christophe Theron 10:18:40 07/17/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Vincent Diepeveen 02:58:56 07/18/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Robert Hyatt 09:14:10 07/18/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Christophe Theron 12:25:48 07/19/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Robert Hyatt 18:42:29 07/19/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Christophe Theron 12:44:00 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Robert Hyatt 19:39:24 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Christophe Theron 13:28:41 07/21/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Uri Blass 12:50:44 07/19/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Robert Hyatt 18:43:40 07/19/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Ricardo Gibert 19:15:31 07/19/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Robert Hyatt 20:08:16 07/19/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Uri Blass 23:52:11 07/19/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Robert Hyatt 19:18:28 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Gian-Carlo Pascutto 02:47:38 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Uri Blass 02:55:43 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Robert Hyatt 19:20:29 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Uri Blass 22:29:38 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Robert Hyatt 11:54:18 07/21/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Robert Hyatt 11:56:12 07/21/02
        
        no more comments??? Robert Hyatt 20:12:15 07/22/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Uri Blass 08:00:26 07/23/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Robert Hyatt 08:44:29 07/23/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Uri Blass 09:08:43 07/23/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Gian-Carlo Pascutto 10:13:11 07/24/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Robert Hyatt 18:54:12 07/24/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Uri Blass 22:32:52 07/24/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Robert Hyatt 08:29:37 07/25/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Uri Blass 09:10:35 07/25/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Robert Hyatt 10:09:31 07/25/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Uri Blass 10:59:31 07/25/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Robert Hyatt 15:01:49 07/25/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Andrzej Nagorko 01:12:41 07/26/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Robert Hyatt 06:50:51 07/26/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Sune Fischer 03:03:27 07/26/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Uri Blass 19:34:46 07/25/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Sune Fischer 15:42:44 07/25/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Robert Hyatt 17:21:33 07/25/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Sune Fischer 02:16:22 07/26/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Robert Hyatt 06:58:16 07/26/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Robert Hyatt 10:20:29 07/23/02
        
        Re: no more comments??? Uri Blass 11:07:15 07/23/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Gian-Carlo Pascutto 03:29:30 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Sune Fischer 05:04:01 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Gian-Carlo Pascutto 05:13:44 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Robert Hyatt 19:22:22 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Sune Fischer 00:16:40 07/21/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Robert Hyatt 11:35:49 07/21/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Sune Fischer 12:07:20 07/21/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Uri Blass 00:29:51 07/21/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Sune Fischer 00:36:23 07/21/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Robert Hyatt 11:38:38 07/21/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Sune Fischer 12:22:48 07/21/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Sune Fischer 05:38:52 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Uri Blass 06:20:41 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Robert Hyatt 19:23:53 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Sune Fischer 07:35:44 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Ricardo Gibert 20:12:28 07/19/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Robert Hyatt 19:25:07 07/20/02
        
        MODERATION Christophe Theron 12:37:00 07/20/02
        
        Re: MODERATION Ricardo Gibert 13:02:54 07/20/02
        
        Re: MODERATION Christophe Theron 13:21:10 07/20/02
        
        Re: MODERATION Robert Hyatt 19:27:26 07/20/02
        
        Re: MODERATION Christophe Theron 12:20:40 07/21/02
        
        Re: MODERATION Bruce Moreland 16:46:38 07/20/02
        
        Re: MODERATION Christophe Theron 12:19:30 07/21/02
        
        Re: MODERATION Uri Blass 12:53:15 07/20/02
        
        Re: MODERATION Miguel A. Ballicora 11:54:40 07/21/02
        
        Re: MODERATION Uri Blass 13:02:36 07/21/02
        
        Re: MODERATION Miguel A. Ballicora 18:36:53 07/21/02
        
        enable/disable code Steffen Jakob 01:01:23 07/22/02
        
        Re: enable/disable code Miguel A. Ballicora 10:23:30 07/22/02
        
        modifying data structures with policy based class design Steffen Jakob 06:15:28 07/22/02
        
        Re: MODERATION(the title is misleading and it is about programming) Uri Blass 00:47:32 07/22/02
        
        Re: MODERATION(the title is misleading and it is about programming) Allen Lake 22:06:31 07/22/02
        
        Re: MODERATION(the title is misleading and it is about programming) José Carlos 13:56:19 07/22/02
        
        Re: MODERATION(the title is misleading and it is about programming) Miguel A. Ballicora 11:16:05 07/22/02
        
        Hint for threads OT/OnT Rolf Tueschen 06:12:00 07/22/02
        
        Re: Hint for threads OT/OnT Uri Blass 06:32:36 07/22/02
        
        Re: Hint for threads OT/OnT Rolf Tueschen 08:18:17 07/22/02
        
        Re: MODERATION Robert Hyatt 19:33:09 07/20/02
        
        Re: MODERATION Christophe Theron 13:13:39 07/20/02
        
        Re: MODERATION Uri Blass 13:31:27 07/20/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Gian-Carlo Pascutto 10:30:54 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Dann Corbit 13:00:52 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Gian-Carlo Pascutto 13:09:57 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Dann Corbit 13:19:32 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Gian-Carlo Pascutto 13:43:39 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Dann Corbit 14:02:42 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Dann Corbit 14:05:45 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Gian-Carlo Pascutto 14:05:17 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Dann Corbit 14:11:42 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Robert Hyatt 11:42:52 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Uri Blass 12:45:16 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Omid David 12:42:36 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Uri Blass 06:59:10 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Omid David 08:33:22 07/15/02
        
        Re: Null-Move: Difference between R = 2 and R = 3 in action Uri Blass 10:50:49 07/15/02

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