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Subject: Re: The need to unmake move

Author: Jeremiah Penery

Date: 15:31:30 08/27/03

Go up one level in this thread


On August 27, 2003 at 17:17:39, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On August 26, 2003 at 18:38:34, Jeremiah Penery wrote:
>
>>On August 26, 2003 at 11:42:03, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On August 26, 2003 at 03:00:52, Johan de Koning wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 25, 2003 at 18:04:29, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>A single cpu that will run crafty at 1M nps has a cache-cache and cache-memory
>>>>>bandwidth of X bytes/second.  A single cpu that runs crafty at 2M nps has
>>>>>exactly twice the cache-cache and cache-memory bandwidth and twice the clock
>>>>>frequency.  A dual-cpu just needs two cpus, but the two cpus give twice the
>>>>>cache-cache bandwidth, but _no_ improvement in cache-memory bandwidth.
>>>>
>>>>Nope, C2M bandwith is constant, regardless of n and f (hence constant :-).
>>>
>>>Actually it isn't.  Some duals use interleaving.  Some don't.  All quads I
>>>have here use 4-way interleaving to ramp up the bandwidth significantly.
>>>
>>>All machines are _not_ created equal...
>>
>>A great many single-CPU motherboards you can buy offer dual-channel memory
>>and/or 4-way memory interleaving.
>
>1.  I don't know much about dual-channel, but it doesn't sound related to
>interleaving.

It doubles available memory bandwidth.  Not by trickery, but by actually having
two full-width memory channels.  Much like interleaving, it requires paired
DIMMs to accomplish.

>2.  I have looked at most every single-cpu machine we have here and they
>are _all_ plain memory boxes (non-interleaved).  The easiest way to catch
>interleaving is to find a requirement that you add two (or four) DIMMS, one
>per "bank".  If you have just one DIMM, or you have just one/two/three DIMM
>slots, that MB isn't interleaving.

I didn't say Dell sold single-cpu machines that had interleaving.  But every
motherboard that any of my friends or I have bought in the last few years offers
4-way memory interleaving.  Yeah, you can't turn it on unless you have 2+ DIMMs
installed, but it's still there.

>>  I don't know if many of the SMP (2-CPU,
>>specifically) boards for Intel or Athlon have that stuff or not.  Opteron
>>doesn't worry about it, as each CPU has its own dedicated (dual-channel) memory,
>>and N CPUs have N times the aggregate bandwidth of a single-CPU machine.
>
>
>Yes, but Opteron is NUMA, which has its _own_ problem issues to deal with.

I don't see why NUMA should pose any problems.  It's all handled by the hardware
and the operating system anyway.

>Anytime you say "each processor has its own memory" you are talking NUMA.

Yes, I know that.

>I haven't seen any recent Intel MBs that didn't have interleaving.  If you
>don't do that, you take a big performance hit as memory has a hard enough
>time keeping up with one cpu, much less two, without some sort of bandwidth
>increasing trickery.
>All of my quads have 4-way interleaving without exception, going back to my
>original quad pentium-pro 200 box I still have (ALR Revolution).

And all of my friends' and my single-cpu boxes have 4-way interleaving also.



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