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Subject: Re: DB vs Kasparov Game 2 35. axb5

Author: James Robertson

Date: 20:25:37 11/20/98

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On November 20, 1998 at 10:53:03, Ernst A. Heinz wrote:

>On November 18, 1998 at 05:00:14, Ernst A. Heinz wrote:
>>
>>On November 17, 1998 at 06:36:49, Ernst A. Heinz wrote:
>>
>>>On November 16, 1998 at 18:19:53, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 16, 1998 at 14:50:57, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>r1r1q1k1/6p1/p2b1p1p/1p1PpP2/PPp5/2P4P/R1B2QP1/R5K1 w - - 0 1
>>>>>
>>>>>It has been contended that this move would be difficult for a computer to find,
>>>>>and this has caused some doubts to be raised as to whether the computer found it
>>>>>without assistance in this game.
>>>>>
>>>>>I would like to ask how we can clear this up absent input from DB.
>>>>>
>>>>>Has anybody run this for a long period on a micro, and if so, was any move
>>>>>selected other than 35. Qb6?
>>>>>
>>>>>Is the counter-attacking line 35. Qb6 Qe7 36. axb5 Rab8 37. Qxa6 e4 supposedly
>>>>>the reason that white shouldn't play 35. Qb6?  Or is it some other line?  If it
>>>>>is too hard or impossible to find 35. axb5, would finding this line show
>>>>>anything?
>>>>>
>>>>>Is there some minimum score delta we can achieve between the position after 35.
>>>>>axb5 and 35. Qb6 that might be evidence that DB should be given the benefit of
>>>>>the doubt?
>>>>>
>>>>>Are these questions unfair or wrong, if so, are their other questions that can
>>>>>be asked and possibly answered that will help clear this up?
>>>>>
>>>>>bruce
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This is move 36 but the other details are correct.
>>>>
>>>>The first time this was discussed on CCC, Chris Whittington was still here, and
>>>>he reported for CSTal. It was closer than others, but still couldn't bridge the
>>>>gap.
>>>
>>>I fed this position into the current "DarkThought" yesterday and it liked Qb6
>>>with a score of roughly +1.7 up to iteration #18 inclusively. Then, it failed
>>>low on Qb6 (score <= 1.39) in iteration #19 after processing 6,490,725,565
>>>nodes. Currently, it is still engaged in resolving the fail-low (see below).
>>>
>>>////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>>>
>>>r1r1q1k1/6p1/p2b1p1p/1p1PpP2/PPp5/2P4P/R1B2QP1/R5K1 w - - 0 1
>>>
>>># Clearing chess engine.
>>># Engine sleeps.
>>>- -
>>>  +------------------------+
>>>8 |*R :::*R :::*Q :::*K :::|
>>>7 |:::   :::   :::   *P:   |
>>>6 |*P :::   *B:   *P:   *P:|
>>>5 |:::*P ::: P *P: P :::   |
>>>4 | P :P:*P :::   :::   :::|
>>>3 |:::   :P:   :::   ::: P |
>>>2 | R ::: B :::   :Q: P :::|
>>>1 |:R:   :::   :::   :K:   |
>>>  +------------------------+
>>>    a  b  c  d  e  f  g  h
>>>
>>>14.01  Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qxa4 Rxa4 Rd7 ... (1.71) #62711053
>>>15.01  Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qh5 Kh2 Qg5 ...   (1.69) #140398448
>>>16.01  Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qh5 Qa7 ...       (1.70) #423411650
>>>17.01  Qb6 Rd8 Be4 Rac8 Qxa6 bxa4 Qxa4 Qh5 Qa7 Qh4 ...   (1.73) #1230726361
>>>18.01  Qb6 Rd8 Be4 a5 axb5 axb4 Rxa8 Rxa8 Rxa8 Qxa8 ...  (1.64) #3337837066
>>>19.01  Qb6 <=178? (1.39) #6490725565
>>>
>>>////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>>
>>I run this on a 500MHz Alpha-21164a and the fail-low of iteration #19 got
>>resolved to +1.26 after 14:34 hours and 11,196,023,081 nodes (see below).
>>
>>>19.01? Qb6 Rd8 Be4 a5 axb5 axb4 Rxa8 Rxa8 Rxa8 Qxa8 ... (1.26) #11196023081
>>
>>I will let "DarkThought" continue the calculation as long as the other people
>>at our institute do not get too angry at me for blocking so many Alphas ... :-)
>
>"DarkThought" has just finished iteration #20 after 70 hours of computation.
>36. Qb6 remained the best move and the PV took nearly 52 hours and exactly
>39,839,971,433 nodes to resolve. The expected best reply changed to 36.. Qf8
>and the score crept up again to +1.36.

Deep blue was searching 250,000,000 nps right? Would it take roughly 160 seconds
(40,000,000,000 / 250,000,000) for Deep Blue to search the same number of nodes?

James

>
>20.01  Qb6 Qf8 axb5 Rcb8 Qa5 Qe7 Be4 Qa7+ b6 Rxb6 ... (1.36) #39839971433
>
>=Ernst=



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