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Subject: Re: Clarification if Cheating could be excluded from Computerchess

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 15:53:23 05/10/00

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On May 10, 2000 at 16:05:45, Hans Gerber wrote:

>On May 10, 2000 at 09:19:13, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>
>>Again, I disagree.  A strong chess player can learn a _lot_ about a program
>>from looking at a complete log of one or two games.  Particularly when that
>>player knew what _he_ was thinking about during the game.  Now he has some
>>insight into how DB 'thinks'.
>>
>>I had a non-titled chess player watch the "trojan horse activity" on ICC, and
>>he watched me stop it completely.  He wasn't much of a programmer, but could
>>read C reasonably well.  He studied the source for crafty, looked at the range
>>of scores my code could produce to avoid this attack, and he worked out a very
>>nice plan to bust it wide open.  All by studying about 20 lines of code and
>>thinking about what they did, and how this could be exploited.
>>
>>He was quite proud when he wrecked several crafty clones on ICC (He carefully
>>avoided mine so I wouldn't notice and fix it.)  Later he told me what he had
>>done after it became obvious that someone had told me and I had fixed it.  :)
>>
>>You would be surprised what good chessplayers can learn by reading the code,
>>looking at it play, or studying detailed output.  The information content is
>>_not_ "close to zero" to them...
>
>Baseline? Wouldn't it be great to have Kasparov  talking with you? I mean
>wouldn't it be better to have Kasparov in the boat of computerchess than the
>situation now? No matter what you think of him. Wasn't it great that he showed
>such interest in computerchess? Wasn't it short-sighted to have him busted  in
>1997? Try to find objective answers. Your report above is a beautiful example of
>a good research. I think the experts of computerchess should have respect for
>the talents of good chessplayers and vice versa. Unfortunately one can observe
>an unsubstantial arrogance among computerchess people when they should seek
>close cooperation to make necessary progress in the programming of chessic
>content as soon as possible. Wouldn't you agree?


Here is the difference.  This player treated _me_ with respect.  He didn't
accuse me of cheating, in a public forum.  He simply pointed out a defect in
something I had done.  I chat with GM players all the time, one in particular
calls at least once a month, and commonly once a week when something is going
on.  They can be approached.  The ones I talk with seem to be friendly,
interested, and not combative.  Kasparov was different.  Yes I would love to
talk chess with him.  Or I would have prior to 1997.  Not after the debacle in
New York, however.  I don't need that kind of 'friend'...



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