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Subject: Re: Forced moves

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 05:52:04 07/30/99

Go up one level in this thread


On July 30, 1999 at 00:28:06, Ed Schröder wrote:

>On July 29, 1999 at 23:07:51, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On July 29, 1999 at 21:47:26, Peter McKenzie wrote:
>>
>>>On July 29, 1999 at 20:54:08, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>On July 29, 1999 at 18:58:12, Ian Osgood wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Do other program authors curtail the search when there is a forced move at the
>>>>>root?
>>>>>
>>>>>How do you detect that a root move may be forced?
>>>>>
>>>>>Could you compare the values of the best and second-best root moves after a
>>>>>search iteration to detect a forced root move?  (Granted, the second-best score
>>>>>won't be accurate due to alpha-beta, but I figure that if the difference was
>>>>>greater than a queen's value, you could still conclude that the best move was
>>>>>forced.)
>>>>
>>>>The only sure way to do this is if there is only one legal move.
>>>
>>>Another safe one is if you figure out that all other moves get mated instantly.
>>>I don't do that yet in LambChop, but it doesn't sound too hard.
>>
>>
>>How would you discover this?  You get a score for the first move (the one you
>>think is obvious) and all the rest fail low and return alpha.
>
>Search the first iteration without alpha/beta.
>
>Ed Schroder
>

How does that help?  Peter said a move is forced if all other moves lead
to mate.  Note to mate-in-one, but to mate-in-any.  1 ply search won't find
this.




>
>
>>
>>>
>>>If all other moves return a mate score, its probably a pretty good heuristic to
>>>play the move that doesn't.  This could lead to allowing a quicker mate
>>>sometimes (due to extensions etc) but I think I'd be comfortable with that risk
>>>:-)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Any other technique is going to leave you open to cases where you can make
>>>>mistakes, and I'm sure there are cases where you'll miss a win or make a losing
>>>>move, and you won't do this if you'll think longer.
>>>>
>>>>If you decide that you can live with walking into losses and missing wins, the
>>>>first question is why did you decide that you can live with this.
>>>>
>>>>One reason is to impress the humans, or avoid having them call you stupid.  This
>>>>is a valid reason, in my opinion.
>>>>
>>>>Another reason is that you save time on the clock this way, and in a computer vs
>>>>computer game with both sides thinking on the opponent's time, you could
>>>>initiate a sequence of instant moves this way, rather than walk into a situation
>>>>where your opponent has a sequence of instance moves.  I don't know if the
>>>>strength gain is higher from catching mistakes, or having extra time or going
>>>>for an instant-move sequence, but I'll bet on the latter.
>>>>
>>>>Now the question is deciding what is forced. An obvious clue is that the search
>>>>sticks with one move more or less forever.  Another clue might be that all of
>>>>the other moves can be refuted in a small amount of time, but I haven't
>>>>experimented with this.  And if you need to restrict this because you are doing
>>>>forced moves that aren't really forced, you can restrict it so that you only do
>>>>this if the program wants to make a recapturing move.
>>>>
>>>>bruce



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