Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Crap statement refuted about parallel speedup

Author: Dave Gomboc

Date: 09:42:54 09/22/01

Go up one level in this thread


On September 22, 2001 at 12:06:36, Uri Blass wrote:

>On September 22, 2001 at 10:05:58, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 22, 2001 at 00:48:21, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I do not express an opinion about the possible speed improvement that you can
>>>get from parallel search today but
>>>I do not see that the rest is already there.
>>>
>>>1)The fact that you need 2 minutes to implement R=3 in Cray blitz means nothing
>>>if you did not test R=3 when you tested the speed improvement from parallel
>>>search.
>>
>>
>>I don't know what you mean here.  In the Cray Blitz papers, I used R=1.  That
>>was what I used in the normal program.  I have also reported here (many times)
>>on the speedup for Crafty.  Which is right in line with Cray Blitz.
>>
>>Null move has _nothing_ to do with parallel search efficiency.  I have data
>>from Cray Blitz with _no_ null-move.  With R=1.  And with Crafty with
>>R=2 and R=2~3.  There is no difference in the performance that I can find.
>>
>>So this entire discussion leaves me wondering just exactly what he is talking
>>about.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>2)Vincent is right that the machine is hell slower than nowadays single cpus
>>>because he talks about Cray blitz from 15 years ago and not about the latest
>>>cray blitz that can search 7M nodes per second.
>>
>>15 years ago would be the YMP.  That is not "hell slow".  The machine had
>>8 cpus at roughly 200mhz although that is not the way to measure the speed of
>>a machine that can produce multiple arithmetic results in one clock cycle.
>>
>>I'd take that old YMP, circa 1986, over _any_ PC today for pure
>>number-crunching.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I understand that his claim is about long time control and the only way to test
>>>if he is right is to take a lot of positions from games when the machine changes
>>>it's mind after a long search and to compare the time that it needs
>>>to do it without parallel search and the time that it needs to do it with
>>>parallel search when the hash tables are the same.
>>
>>
>>His claim is simply nonsense.  I have explained why already.  If he can produce
>>a speedup of > 2 with 2 processors, then using two processes on a single-cpu
>>machine will produce a speedup > 1.  The proof is trivial.  And the concept
>>is ridiculous.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I have positions when Deep Fritz changed it's mind after a long search from my
>>>correspondence games but I have not multi processor.
>>>If people are interested in testing it I may send them my positions
>>>and they may use them in order to test the speed improvement of Deep Fritz from
>>>parallel search.
>>>
>>>I agree that speed improvement of more than being 2 times faster from 2
>>>processors means that it is possible to improve the program when it is using 1
>>>proccesor.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>Which means the test is simply invalid.  The sequential search has to be fixed
>>first.
>
>It means that the test is an important test because if the 2 processors are more
>than twice faster than one processor for some programs then it is clear that
>there is a room for improvement in the sequential search in the future(it is
>possible that there is a room for improvement at long time control but the
>programmers simply did not care for that because they care only about tournament
>time control).
>
>It is also important for buyers to know it because if Deep Fritz with 2
>processors is more than twice faster than Deep Fritz with one processor at long
>time control(I do not claim that it is the case) then it means that 2 processors
>can be more important for correspondence games.
>
>Uri

It isn't that there is room for improvement in the sequential search "in the
future", it's that there is room for improvement in the sequential search
_immediately_.  Now, if that improvement isn't made, then you're testing a good
parallel implementation against a poor sequential implementation, so your
speedup value is meaningless.

Dave



This page took 0.07 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.