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Subject: Re: The need to unmake move

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 10:44:13 08/25/03

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On August 25, 2003 at 05:25:35, Sune Fischer wrote:

>On August 24, 2003 at 21:53:55, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>
>>>>That is a reasonable rate for a program that searches 1M nodes per second.  I'm
>>>>going at 2.4M so make that about once every 400 nanoseconds.  :)  Suddenly it
>>>>begins to add up in a big way.  :)
>>>>
>>>
>>>Ehh, if you search 2.4 Mnodes on a dual that's 1.2 nodes on a single (one every
>>>800 ns), I'd say not very far from 1M. I assume you will also have _two_ chips
>>>to do the copying :)
>>
>>_no_.  You have exactly _one_ bus connecting _both_ processors to memory.
>>
>>That's a problem...
>
>What has the bus to do with cache to cache copying?

Cache copying is _important_.  If I write to a line of cache on processor
A, then processor B has to invalidate that line of cache if it has it.  That
hurts.  Also when I write to a line of cache, that displaces what was there
_before_ the copy.  And eventually that modified line of cache has to also
be written back to real memory.

IE for copy/make, you generate a _lot_ of memory traffic...  And with
two processors sharing a single memory bus, the traffic for two is the same
as for the traffic for one CPU that is twice as fast.

Remember, cache-to-cache is a misnomer.  You have to replace something that
is already there, and once you write to a cache line, that cache line _will_
be written to memory before it is destroyed.  So cache-to-cache in the case
of copy/make often turns into memory-to-memory.


>
>Each thread would copy to it's own stack, which I presume would reside in the
>cache on each respective chip.
>Otherwise you're right it would be dead slow, but then that would be the same
>for all kinds of tables which I certainly hope isn't the case.

It's a problem _everywhere_.  And with a dual, it gets worse as a copy to a
line in one cache invalidates that line in another cache when the content
address is the same.  That makes duals potentially much worse.


>
>-S.



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