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Subject: Re: Never Say "Impossible"

Author: Jesper Antonsson

Date: 18:13:15 05/05/01

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On May 04, 2001 at 22:05:51, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On May 04, 2001 at 15:01:52, Jesper Antonsson wrote:

>>Well, I would say that in a formal computer science framework, you are wrong.
>>Chess is clearly finite, and thus in polynomial space.
>
>First, what makes it "finite"?  the 50-move rule is not absolute and both
>players _can_ ignore it.

The search space (the number of possible positions) is finite. Finding a best
move can thus be done in finite time and space.

>Second, a tree search such as minimax is already known (and proven) to be NP.

So, Tic-Tac-Toe (which can also be solved with minimax) is NP? Hardly.

>Since the tree size is represented as an exponential, N=W^D, where W is the
>number of branches at any node and D is the depth of the tree, it is clearly
>an exponential function where every additional iteration depth takes W times
>as long as the previous one did.

If Crafty finds mate, the next plies won't take long...

>> Of course, the number of
>>nodes in the search tree is exponential in the tree depth, but *only* if you
>>don't search deeply enough. (We will probably never be able to search deeply
>>enough either, but that is beside the point.)
>>
>>Jesper Antonsson
>
>If you make several assumptions, like 50-move rule is absolute, then the game
>is finite and exponential.  However...  the 50-move rule can be ignored if the
>players choose, which changes this a bit...

Que? Finite AND exponential? The search space is finite, so searching it is
finite too. Thus the search only exhibits exponentiality until a certain depth
is reached, as I said before. We don't *need* the 50-move rule for this, cutoffs
of repetitions suffice.

>And then there is the 'practical' point of view of course...  even if it is
>effectively finite, as is the number of atoms in the universe, it is >practically infinite...

Yeah, I've never disputed that.

Jesper



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